Yesterday, our friends at The Trace published an article by Jennifer Mascia on the Florida law requiring training for a resident who wants to walk around with a concealed gun. The point of Jennifer’s research is that the law is written in such a way that as Grandpa would say, the training requirement is ‘nisht’ (read: nothing.)
According to Jennifer, who interviewed a group of gun trainers who do their thing in the Gunshine State, the law which requires that someone fire one ‘live’ round allows trainers to set up a little pipe filled with sand in a hotel conference room, stick the gun barrel into the end of the pipe and – bang! Or the class participants can shoot one round of non-lethal ammunition into a water tank or some other simulated device.
So, here we have yet another example of how Americans are walking around with all those guns that they don’t really know or understand how to shoot, which is just another reason we have so much gun violence, right?
According to Jennifer, there are now 33 states which allow legal gun owners to walk around with guns whether they have undergone any training or not. One of the trainers she interviewed put it like this: “You miss your intended target, the bullet goes somewhere else. That could potentially kill somebody.”
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. It’s the Old Wild West all over the place.
Except there’s only one little problem, which is that the word ‘training’ is probably the single, most mis-used word in the entire gun world, perhaps mis-used even more frequently than the word ‘rights,’ which is also a word that is endlessly mis-used by both sides in the gun debate.
Jennifer’s article contains quotes from 7 different guys in Florida who call themselves gun ‘trainers.’ Know how you get to be a gun trainer in all 50 states? Call yourself a gun trainer.
“Hi. I’m Mike Weisser. I’m a gun trainer.” That’s it. Now I’m a gun trainer.
The gun industry is the only industry in the United States which makes products that are advertised as lethal and dangerous but does not have any (as in zero) industry standard for safety training at all. And in states which require some kind of training, the training requirement, like Florida’s one live round to be fired, is described, but the requirement to be the individual who confirms that someone fired that live round is never imposed by the gun industry itself.
At best, anyone can become a ‘certified’ gun trainer or instructor by sitting in a classroom for a couple of hours while some old guy reads from a booklet published by the NRA, then you take a short-answer quiz which nobody ever fails, then you pay the guy who in turn gives you a piece of paper which says that you’re a ‘certified’ NRA trainer. That’s it.
Know what the word ‘training’ means? It means you do a specific, physical task like shooting a gun or backing a 16-wheeler into a loading bay the exact same way every…single… time.
I was trained to shoot an M-14 rifle at Fort Gordon and what impressed me was how the Army could take a bunch of illiterate red necks and ghetto whoppers and in six weeks get them to clean, load, fire, and re-load a rifle even with their eyes closed. It helped, by the way, that if you couldn’t get through this drill without making any mistakes, you didn’t get chow.
That’s training. The so-called training conducted by all those so-called trainers who were interviewed by Jennifer Mascia is pure crap.
But the good news is that it probably doesn’t matter whether the people who take that training can hit the broad side of the barn or not. I have yet to see one, single piece of serious research which actually makes any kind of causal connection between all those legal gun owners walking around without any training and the 300 or so people who every day shoot themselves or someone else with a gun.
Want to train yourself to use a gun? Join the Army or the Marines.
Apr 11, 2022 @ 11:27:17
“The gun industry is the only industry that makes products that are advertised as lethal and dangerous but has zero standard for safety training at all.”
How about cigarette? And if you do join the Army or the Marines you won’t get any safety training on how to smoke a cigarette, but you can purchase a pack if you’re 18 years old.
P.S. Was that training you received to shoot an M-14 rifle at Fort Gordon, GA or was it at Fort Dix, NJ? And was it before or after you deserted?
Apr 11, 2022 @ 13:08:44
Do me a favor. Want to engage in serious discussion? Fine. I’m always willing and able to respond on that basis. But you’re just being a jerk with these childish comments and if you think you’re convincing anyone, the only person you’re convincing is yourself.
Apr 11, 2022 @ 14:10:09
Sorry Mike, but what part of my post is not serious? If you’re referring to the comment about cigarettes, this is not only serious, but true. You wrote that the gun industry is the “only industry” in the U.S. that is advertising as lethal and dangerous. I’m just pointing out that the cigarette industry is another.
If you’re responding to my comment about only military personnel having to be 18 years old to purchase cigarettes on a military installation, this is also true and I believe is a very serious problem.
If you’re referring to the comment about Fort Gordon, GA, this is also true, according this post.
If you’re referring to the remark about Fort Dix, NJ, this is also true, see your post on March 14, 2022.
If you’re referring to my comment about you being a deserter, this is also true according to a post you made a while back saying that you deserted before you were sworn into the Army.
I am being serious and my comments are only in reference to posts that you have written in your own words in this blog.
Most all of your posts are in your own language and it’s because of you I do research, I question your definitions, and I point out some problems that I find in your intended meaning behind your usages of words and phrases.
Sorry, if that offends you, but I only point out discrepancies that you have written. If I’m in error, please show me where my errors are so we can have a serious discussion.
You may think my responses to your blog as not being serious, and that I’m being a jerk with childish comments, I’m not trying to convince anyone, but just pointing out the obvious.
I’m more than happy to have serious discussions, but very seldom do you respond to not only my comments but many other comments that are made by your readers. Looking at your earlier posts, 2013, 2014, and 2015, you responded to many comments and had some very interesting discussions. But now it seems you respond very seldom to those who post comments. If you don’t respond how is one to have a serious discussion.
Thank you,
Apr 13, 2022 @ 09:48:41
This is my living room and I’ll decide who gets invited to sit down and who doesn’t.
Apr 13, 2022 @ 11:04:52
OK.
Apr 11, 2022 @ 12:09:57
“The gun industry is the only industry that makes products that are advertised as lethal and dangerous but has zero standard for safety training at all.”
Maybe the keywords are “advertised as” but I’m thinking of the automobile industry, that markets lethal and dangerous products that I can buy even if I don’t have a drivers license.
Of course I shouldn’t write that at too high volume, in case someone should remind us that I can’t take possession of a car until I show I have insurance for it.
Apr 11, 2022 @ 12:36:43
But you can cancel the insurance the moment you drive the car off the lot.
Apr 11, 2022 @ 13:36:44
If Mike thinks “gun training” is hilarious, I think the official driver “training” I got was just as bad. Read a little book, take a quiz that a box of rocks could pass, drive around the block and park the car after making a left and a right hand turn. Do it in a Honda Civic and then go out and buy a Super Duty. Yeah, right. And unlike my biannual qualification showing that I can hit a 12″x18″ target 72% of the time with 25 rounds, my driver license is good for life. Even if I crash into someone and kill them.
I wondered why Driver Ed was cancelled in so many schools and did a little digging. Turns out that the insurance people couldn’t find much value in it.
If you want lethal force training, I think you better sign up for one of those 40 hour classes taught by people who actually have some credentials and then sign up for monthly IDPA or something. But caveat emptor. Even cops, supposedly trained, miss the target most of the time when shooting under stress.
That all said, the training requirements are irrelevant. Its the same old gang bangers, drug dealers, wife abusers, and revolving door felons doing most of the shooting at other people. And they don’t bother with no stinkin’ training anyway. The suicides? Kinda hard to miss when you got the gun in your mouth.
Apr 13, 2022 @ 09:58:00
Is that shooting that you did at a 12 X 18 target timed? If it wasn’t, then it’s nonsense.
Let me tell you something about driver’s ed. I am the last generation who learned to drive before seatbelts were required in cars. And I’m also the last generation which bashed my head in and everyone else’s head in because we didn’t have seatbelts and the reason that Detroit started making cars where you have to fasten the belt is because so many members of my generation didn’t use the belts even after they were standard on all cars. If nothing else, driver’s ed taught the generations that followed me to fasten their belts. That alone justifies driver’s ed as far as I’m concerned.
I have a certification in IT as a network administrator. I earned it by going back to school and then teaching a networking class at Novell and being graded on my teaching ability by several Novell instructors. That’s what ‘training’ means – the trainer has to be evaluated and certified. You can take all the gun ‘training’ classes you want to take and not one of those so-called trainers has ever been certified by anyone in terms of the ability to actually train anyone.
Apr 16, 2022 @ 19:36:25
We weren’t timed, but were encouraged to shoot rapidly. And it was periodic (every two year) requalification for the CCW, not training. Its more than some states require for a permit. Heck some states apparently don’t ensure a permit applicant knows the muzzle from the breech.
Some of us, myself included, added a stage as an elective (voluntarily) where we had to do a 5 step draw from a relaxed stance and put two rounds on target in less than a total of two and a half seconds, repeated multiple times, from a random start clock. My average was about 1.85 seconds. No, I don’t consider myself highly “trained” or even moderately “trained”. Sorta competent, I suppose.
Training? LANL had “trainers” who were certified by a national lab, no less. who were supposed to teach us to train people. They all followed the same script that someone else wrote who was supposed to be a training instructor. How did the training instructor get to be a training instructor? Some manager gave them that title and told them to write a procedure for everyone else to follow. Some of this stuff left you rolling on the floor laughing. Kind of analogous to your statement “…At best, anyone can become a ‘certified’ ( ) trainer or instructor by sitting in a classroom for a couple of hours while some old guy reads from a booklet published by the ( ), then you take a short-answer quiz which nobody ever fails…”
For 34 years I trained graduate students, post docs, faculty, and professional techs how to work in a clean chemistry and mass spectrometry lab where we had to deal with corrosive acids, Category I carcinogens, radioactive material, pressurized systems, and high voltage components. None got hurt. Most figured out how to produce decent data. I think that on the job success is a little more evidence of knowing how to train someone than having a “training program” give someone a certificate and a trophy. So while I agree you are right that some people in the gun biz don’t have credentials that mean beans, others who have been in the gun biz for decades and who have acquired relevant experience undoubtedly do.
I did take Driver Ed, actually. Which is probably the reason that when some careless driver pulled out of a parking space right in front of me while I was driving my road test, I was able to quickly avoid a crash and calmly wave the offending driver on since she was blocking the road. I think I passed at that moment.
Apr 14, 2022 @ 06:51:50
Mike’s right….Why bother with training? Mike’s had training, and he’s still managed to have SEVEN NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES!!! Apparently the Army skips the first rule of Firearm Safety: “Treat every gun as if it is loaded”…..